It was a packed house at The Piano at 4pm on Friday 29 August – the event had sold out in mid-August and the crowd was enthused to hear Dame Anne Salmond speak with Nicola Legat. The focus of the talk was Dame Anne’s latest book, but the discussion ranged widely. Nicola opened describing Dame Anne as “something of a lodestar for our nation”.
The initial discussion was around one of Dame Anne’s essays in a forthcoming book talking about the Waikereru eco-sanctuary, and research work around the botanists visiting the region during Cook’s first voyage in 1769. The excerpts from Joseph Banks’ diary described a beautiful landscape and Dame Anne talked about how these were invaluable for the Tuia 1769 project for re-introducing plant life to the region.
This discussion linked into how Cook’s voyages and presence in Aotearoa was commemorated in Gisborne, and some of the challenges around this – how do we position Cook now? Dame Anne thought this was really interesting. The first was the 2012 Transit of Venus (the official reason for Cook’s 1769 voyage was to observe this). This looked ahead to the scientific future of Aotearoa and was a joyous occasion. The 250th anniversary of Cook’s visit to the East Coast were more fraught, focused on Gisborne where there had been violence. The community prepared and talked through the commemorations, sharing their thoughts with each other and the community itself ran the events in 2019.
Nicola considered Dame Anne’s writing more broadly – describing how Dame Anne “take[s] us there” Dame Anne discussed the visit of the replica Endeavour in 1995. She and others were presenting on what had occurred in 1769, and she sensed how strongly felt these events still were.
On the question of whether in her writing, Dame Anne feels she can occupy a role to help bridge gaps and encourage others, she reflected on how others had inspired her – her husband and how open-minded he was, as well as her father. These were people with backgrounds not in Te Ao Māori but who were fair. The key is relationships and getting to know each other as people. It isn’t about any sense of ‘duty’. For her, exploring Te Ao Māori as a Pākehā is a joyous thing.
However, we seemed to be in a space now where some want to drag us back or “suck out the joy” - groups like Hobson’s Pledge who assert that Te Tiriti is not a partnership. For Dame Anne, she talked again about relationships and connections – her own experiences knowing Don Brash, as well as one of Don Brash’s mentors Sir Norman Perry. She saw Brash’s later path as sad. Te Tiriti was more than a partnership – it was a gift exchange and fundamentally about relationships and more personal. Nicola asked where this impulse might come from – fear? Wilful misunderstanding? Dame Anne thinks perhaps it works as a diversionary tactic to avoid public attention on other things. She also considers that in a small country like Aotearoa, people and groups are deeply entangled with each other and work on a more intimate level.
She sees more constructive engagement at more local levels, talking about her own experiences in Gisborne and her work with the Historic Places Trust. At a community level, relationships and shared interests can be built and there is a capacity to deal with each other as people.
“Diversity is the stuff of life” - why be afraid?
It is important to remain open and work together and find the shared connections while appreciating our differences. Above all, she thinks that Kiwis are not as mean and horrible as they seem online.
“I find people on the whole decent”, and there is so much to enjoy in life.
The floor opened for audience questions. In response to whether she thought there was hope for an ethical truth-telling process, Dame Anne saw that anyone can reach out and build relationships and support truth-telling – everyone is capable of making a difference and we don’t need to wait to be led. She saw more kindness and decency in Aotearoa than hate. On a question about education and curriculum changes, Dame Anne saw dangerous things happening with the ‘cancelling’ of history. But she emphasised that our knowledge of the past needs to be taught non-judgmentally and understand and learn from the past.
Nicola closed the session and called it “a session of wisdom and hope.” It was a great experience to be able to hear from one of Aotearoa’s most important public intellectuals and her life and experiences. The session was very aptly named – knowledge really is a blessing.
More Anne Salmond
Knowledge Is A Blessing on your Mind
Find books by Dame Anne Salmond at the library
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